August 22nd, 2019

Replying to a tweet from @arctictony

Except that Apple never suggested that publishers should switch their main site over to the Apple News Format. Google is now strongly encouraging publishers to only publish AMP.

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Malte Ubl

This is a misunderstanding of our messaging. Please point to precise source saying that so I can get it fixed. AMP wants to be sufficiently complete so that publishers can choose to avoid maintaining multiple copies (outside of IA and Apple News) by publishing in AMP. Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile

# Posted by Malte Ubl on Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 4:10pm

Jeremy Keith

When I say “Google is now strongly encouraging publishers to only publish AMP”, I mean AMP pages without a corresponding regular web page. Cue semantic chicanery about AMP being regular web pages (spoiler: they are not). adactio.com/notes/15669 Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Jeremy Keith

When I say “Google is now strongly encouraging publishers to only publish AMP”, I mean AMP pages without a corresponding regular web page. Cue semantic chicanery about AMP being regular web pages (spoiler: they are not). adactio.com/notes/15669 Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Malte Ubl

They definitely are regular web pages! Like there is literally nothing you could possibly argue that makes them not a web page. How do you define “regular web page” in a way that it could exclude AMP pages? Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile

# Posted by Malte Ubl on Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 8:22pm

Malte Ubl

I’m just saying: Web pages containing custom attributes is perfectly normal and doesn’t influence whether they are web pages or not. Whether you put an amp attribute on your HTML element or not certainly doesn’t change whether that document is a web page or not. Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Trek, Drugs & Jem’hadar

# Posted by Malte Ubl on Thursday, August 22nd, 2019 at 10:19pm

Paul Bakaus

To clarify: I’m not saying “use AMP above anything”, I tried to say that if you want AMP’s benefits, running just one site makes development and maintenance much easier. It’s of course totally possible that another framework is better suited for that site, and that’s OK! Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Jeremy Keith

Yowza! Far from questioning AMP’s right to exist, I want it to exist and compete on a level playing field—without being propped up by an unfair advantage in search results. Classic fascism, that. adactio.com/notes/15673

Jeremy Keith

…but if you use any framework other than AMP, you don’t get any of the Google Search benefits that are only bestowed on sites “choosing” to use AMP. Hardly seems fair. adactio.com/notes/15674

Luke Stevens

What was misunderstood? Direct 2018 (!) conference quote: “We’ve seen so much success with AMP and the functionality has grown so much that we feel confident in saying that AMP is the right core technology to build your site with. And we’re already seeing this happen at scale.” Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Jeremy Keith

Agreed! Maintaining one site is nicer than two. And yet publishers with already-fast sites (like The Guardian) are compelled to make AMP versions for the search benefits. That’s not a side point—it is THE point! adactio.com/notes/15682

Paul Bakaus

and we both agree that needs to be fixed. An already fast site should ideally be able to stay with their current framework and get the same benefits. While web standard folks+Chrome/ Search devs are working on that, I’m working on the AMP-as-framework story, which is orthogonal. Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Paul Bakaus

In other words, I completely get your point, and yet I think there’s need for higher level HTML frameworks on the web that make it easy to focus on creating content, as opposed to fighting bugs and perf issues. I’d like AMP to become a natural choice for that. Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Malte Ubl

Jeremy Keith

It is not orthongonal as long as AMP is being privileged in search. This isn’t something you can just handwave away. The unfairness of it actively harms AMP-as-framework. adactio.com/notes/15687

Jeremy Keith

Me too! I would love to get behind AMP—a declarative framework where configuration happens in HTML rather than JavaScript: great! But I cannot in good conscience support it while it is being unfairly prioritised and propped up in search. adactio.com/notes/15688

Jeremy Keith

So, just to be clear, while you might be capable of the mental gymnastics required to think “Well, leaving aside the unfairness of the SEO situation with AMP…”, I cannot do that. I wish AMP would compete on its own merits. Do it. Please. adactio.com/notes/15689

Kushal Dave

A thing that shows how webby AMP is is seeing it inside Safari inside of Twitter. Google not involved, format benefits Twitter’s users. Compare to other formats that are mandatory-or-close to show up in other dominant platforms, but no 3rd parties can leverage/influence. Jeremy Keith Jeremy Keith Tony Haile Malte Ubl

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